Lucian Msamati: From ‘Games of Thrones’ to ‘Godot’

Angel Lambo There have been many productions of Samuel Beckett’s Waiting for Godot (1952); some really ramp up the comedy and the physical humour, while others try to focus on the play’s nihilistic existentialism. What balance does this new production strike?

Lucian Msamati We had the great honour of visiting the Beckett Archives at the University of Reading. It’s an extensive and fascinating collection and the people that run it are passionate and knowledgeable. But, to me, it felt a little bit like going to pay your respects to the Pope. These great, canonical texts come steeped in mythology and law. And it becomes a battle: ‘Oh, it must be done like this.’ ‘Oh, this is what it means...’ For me, as an actor, the least interesting question is ‘What does it mean?’ It is rather, ‘How do we do it?’ Our aim has been to strip all that away and deal with the piece in front of us, here and now. I believe, at its best, it is all those things: funny, nihilistic, dark, lyrical. It’s bonkers. It’s beautiful and moving – it really is theatre in its purest form and we’re having a fantastic, brilliantly tortured time trying to bring it to life.

AL There’s a lot of absurdist yet deeply poetic language in this somewhat repetitious play. How do you think it will resonate with an audience in 2024? 

LM They will come to this play having been through a pandemic and lockdowns. Most of us were in our homes without an end in sight. Nobody knew what was going to happen. We were all reduced to specks in the great swirl of life. So, I think we can all identify with the play’s characters who wake up into monotony, waiting for something to happen, waiting for God knows what.

AL How do you feel your portrayal of Estragon differs from those that have gone before you?

LM I can’t say conclusively as it’s the five of us putting this thing together and bringing it to life. There’s Ben Whishaw, Jonathan Slinger, Tom Edden – all fantastic actors. James Macdonald, our director, is one of the greats. I’m a member of a band and I think it is essential that I bring with me the wealth of my cultural experience. Actually, as I’ve matured, I’ve found that I’m hiding less and just being myself more. Already, I think that has added something to the mix.

AL Had you worked with Ben Whishaw before?

LM At the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art, Ben was a classmate of a very dear friend of mine: actor, activist and director Chipo Chung. I first met Ben through her – well over 20 years ago. And he has not changed one bit. He has his own unique charisma – there’s a mysterious quality about him. Then Ben and I were in the television series The Hollow Crown [2012–16]. I played the Bishop of Carlisle and he played Richard II. We spent an entire day off the coast of St Davids filming Richard and Carlisle’s arrival back on the shores of England, and the water just got higher and higher and higher. There were moments when I thought we were going to die, and we just kept on being told to go further and further out.

AL You were a founder of the internationally acclaimed Over the Edge theatre group in Zimbabwe, so what made you decide to settle in the UK back in 2003?

LM Two reasons. Firstly, things in Zimbabwe, where I grew up, studied and started my career, were becoming politically and economically untenable, and when you have an opportunity to go elsewhere, you take it, even with all its complications. Secondly – and, being a football fan, this is the best analogy for me – I believed I was capable of playing at Champions League level, so I needed to follow the action.

AL That was brave. Or, rather, a decision made by someone who believes in himself but is also happy to invite criticism and face difficulty.

LM It was a confidence that was earned. I’d already done my stuff around the world and I had already put myself up against the best and not been outshone.

AL Thinking about the parts you’ve played over the years – from Iago in the Royal Shakespeare Company’s production of Othello [2015] to the wily pirate Salladhor Saan in Game of Thrones [2011–19] – you seem to be drawn to complex, dichotomous characters.

LM Oh yes, absolutely. 

AL How much of this do you think is a reflection of you?

LM Perhaps I am always looking for things that scare me, that take me out of my comfort zone. But also, there is no such thing as evil or good. What I have found exciting is to think: this person is seen as a murderer or a thief or has done abhorrent things, but what if their motivations are love? It’s finding the thing that makes them human, that makes the audience both hate and love them. I enjoy being able to get under people’s skin in that way.

AL Do you approach the characters you play for television differently from those for stage?

LM The medium doesn’t matter. It’s more the character and the story, or it can be who else is involved. And, sometimes, you go where the money is! Not all of us have the luxury of being able to choose and I’m in a very blessed and privileged position in that sense. I always try to be as open-minded and self-challenging as I can.

This article first appeared in Frieze Week, London 2024 under the title ‘Go Further’.

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^{Main image: Ben Whishaw and Lucian Msamati in rehearsal for Waiting for Godot, 2024. Photographs: Marc Brenner}